It is always in someone’s benefit, if they have any traits in common with a bigoted group, even circumstantial traits (for example, white ppl, and white supremacists) to cast doubt on if anyone really can be identified as a bigot based on any traits, even if they aren’t circumstantial or innocent but instead very deliberate choices. They see this as protecting themselves from splash damage should the bigots be driven out of society– protecting the bigots to protect themselves.
But. But then, imagine if the bigots gain control of society. Now having things in common with them and NOT resisting or disavowing bigotry, having shielded bigots from suspicion, is an advantage. In this scenario, the person gets away clean, too.
It’s basically a win/win decision, if you’re white to protect white supremacists. if you’re a christian to protect evangelical fundamentalists. If you’re a cis man, to protect toxic masculinity. Any other course of action involves the possibility of backlash, or a source of risk where the outcome might not come up completely in your favor.
But like, doing good is not about mitigating risk to yourself. Opposing evil is not about putting yourself first. It’s not about projecting that there’s an imaginary innocent just like you out there, and that you have to protect them. It’s about caring for people who aren’t you. If one’s ideals all mysteriously turn up in outcomes that mean that even if evil prevails, you’ll be okay or even better off than when you started then like… I do not think those are very wholesome ideals no matter how ‘nice’ or ‘kind’ or ‘non-judgmental’ you bill them as.
This is a person who reblogged a post of mine via some Nazi blogs.
Notice they do not call themselves a Nazi. Instead, they use a collection of dog whistle interests that require specific contexts to be understood as basically white nationalism, colonialist white-heritage ‘antiquities’, specifically white nationalist Christianity, Nazi-related gender roles and ‘traditionalism’. Notice they work with children.
Learn to recognize Nazis. They do not look like goose-stepping jack booted thugs all of the time. Beware.
“traditionalism” is a big red flag with a swastika right in the center.
Be wary of anyone who self-describes that way.
I think you’re looking too deep into things
this was an actual real life nazi i found.
and not a superlative “if I call them a nazi, it means they’re bad, im signalling they’re bad” way, this was an honest to god literal nazi who followed other nazis who posted gore and swastikas and holocaust denialism and other shit. I’ve already done a breakdown on my notes on this post, and if you need like, evidence in excess of the absolute WORLD of ‘how to spot a fascist dog whistle’ media content that has come out since I made this original post before 2016, i made a break down ages ago with proof that like, i’m not exaggerating. the person this post was about was a real nazi, and has since deleted. https://betterbemeta.tumblr.com/post/150794073297/alucard-gintoki-featherinmycapandcheese
this is not not “oh i found this combination of stuff and if i reach and squint it might be a nazi.” it’s how real nazis describe themselves. with the evidence coming from a real, actual one. you don’t have to “look deep” at all or connect the dots, it’s usually right there on the surface and using handy dog whistles is one way they achieve that while not compromising relationships with “normies”.
saying “you’re looking too deep” to this post is like being shown a pig, being told by me it’s a pig, and then being like “oh you’re looking too deep. that could be any animal.”
I misunderstood, or you misspoke. I thought you meant that “because they associate themselves with these things they’re a Nazi” when it seems you meant “these are things Nazis commonly associate themselves with”. But still, not everyone interested in these things is a Nazi, albiet it warrants looking into their blog to be sure.
I get that communication is hard, but I don’t know how much clearer I could possibly make it that this is a post dedicated to breaking down the dog whistles that nazis use to weaken recognition of their own interests while still signalling to their in-group– especially when by 2019 standards, “nationalism” and ‘traditionalism’ are so, SO well-known to basically ALWAYS be dog whistles they can almost never be mistaken for ‘someone who just likes their country and traditions.’ Before the global platforming of open fascist politics, when this post was first circulated, they were more obscure.
Like, I get where you’re coming from but I still strongly suggest that “we don’t accidentally wanna accuse an innocent person” is the wrong mindset to have when you see someone with “nationalist, traditionalist” in their blog description because if they aren’t a reactionary nationalist fascist tradwife or something, they are a person putting themselves in with that crowd. Whether it’s from a place of innocence or not, they pay the social consequences for resembling a nazi. This post, and maybe most of your own life too, is no space to try and float that there are Very Fine People among those whose behavior very precisely resembles nazis.
This is not a situation like, when I was 14 years old and somehow hadn’t heard of kingdom hearts, I invented a fantasy OC that used a “key-blade” and inadvertently met a ton of kingdom hearts fans from a state of total innocence.
being treated like a nazi is not just a condemnation or punishment of real nazis, but a deterrent for people to resemble nazis out of ignorance.
besides, you have to “look into their blog to be sure” just to see their sidebar description or surface posts. I had to “look into the blog” just to notice this person had reblogged from overt nazis. Why behave like someone in the position to spot a nazis based on evidence (which this post is intended to spread awareness of, that evidence may be different from what people expected in 2016!) is somehow not being cautious?
I know you looked into their blog to be sure. I’m not accusing you of judging them solely on the fact that they’re into traditionalism and nationalism. And no, you shouldn’t punish people for “resembling Nazis out of ignorance”. If someone gets a bad haircut and looks like a skinhead you can’t assume they are one, same as when someone is a bit too patriotic and also interested in traditonalism.
Also “we don’t want to accidentally accuse an innocent person” is the absolute MOST important mindset to have in any situation!
look me in the eyes and tell me that you’ll ever see someone ‘seeming too patriotic’ in a way that causes themselves to explicitly describe themselves as a ‘nationalist traditionalist’ and not like, at least think “wow, that looks like a nazi”– you’re not shielding innocent people by giving them the benefit of the doubt, what you’re doing is giving many more actual nazis a benefit they don’t deserve. You’re not sparing someone innocent, you’re sparing the guilty under the mantle that there might be some unicorn among them who in complete accidental ignorance, might be doing or saying the exact same thing as the rest of the nazis– therefore contributing to their culture yet somehow not being culpable for the outcome.
This isn’t like some court of law where “innocent before proven guilty” is important, because interpersonal senses and interactions are not the actions of a state. The reason a state may be like that is because it has supreme power to leverage violence against people and this is a check upon its unmitigated power.
But you are not a state. Your social interactions and your social senses are not the actions of a state. Every day, whether you intend to or not, you are using your senses to identify properties of those around you and even place pressure on those in your environment to act or not act in a certain way. And chances are, you don’t give this sort of leeway to anyone else who seemingly perfectly resembles violence– you don’t see someone self-describing the same way homophobes do and think “oh, I better not judge them negatively, they might be from an isolated island where there’s no homophobia, or a completely innocent baby who still for some reason is acting this way.” You already judge people in this way based on cues they give for your own safety and you’re probably not too worried about splash damage because chances are when you were younger or more innocent being met with a negative reaction for harmful or bigoted ideas taught you to not be a jerk or a bigot if you valued the opinion of those around you.
I’m not asking you to join some kind of presumptuous hate mob unbased in evidence, or roleplay judge, jury, and executioner whenever you see someone say they think ancient rome was neat. I am asking you to consider extending the same social habits and chilling effect to fascists as we do to homophobes, racists, and other reactionaries.
It is one of the crux anxieties that fascists exploit, the insecurity that many people still harbor that if we do not tolerate fascism, anybody (read: white people, sometimes straight people, etc.) could be tarred a nazi and thus protecting fascism is to protect oneself from ‘unjust accusation.’ Exploiting this anxiety is part of how fascist subcultures radicalize people to their perspective. Meanwhile, most people who have not been exposed to this worry don’t typically fret over being mistaken for a nazi or other type of aggressive political bigot for their interests or base traits, no matter what they are. You may not be aware that you are repeating these fears and bringing their talking points into the conversation but you are , and I strongly encourage you to stop and develop another approach that does not afford fascism special social privileges that other societally-harmful or regressive forces do not enjoy in a typical worldview.
Contrary to what you assume of me I do treat other kinds of potentially discriminatory people (i.e. people I think might be racist, homophobic, etc.) With the same benefit of the doubt because everyone, and I mean everyone, deserves that much. You can never assume anything of anyone without hard evidence, and “innocent until proven guilty” is part of the judicial system for a reason. Because it’s what’s right. Catching a hundred people who actually are Nazis/racists/homophobes isn’t worth falsely labeling one innocent person.
That anxiety of falsely accusing someone is a normal thing people have and it’s important. Yeah Nazis exploit that, but that’s like saying “a kidnapper exploits your fear of losing someone you love, so you should stop caring about people. That way they can’t exploit you.”
Coincidence exists. And people attach different meanings to words, regardless of their literal definition. One person might think being a nationalist is being patriotic, while another would say it’s wanting a separate nation for your race/ethnicity.
You can’t assume anything you don’t know for sure.
Yeah, yeah– “I know they described themselves as a nationalist but listen– you can’t judge them, because what if you get Little Timmy, the only child who loves reciting the pledge of allegiance in 8:00 homeroom in middle school”
All this is saying is that when you see bigotry, you won’t do anything about it, and those who are hurt by bigotry– including yourself, seeing as you’re bisexual like me– shouldn’t trust you to stand up to them because you’re more concerned about not accidentally insulting someone who is doing harmful things, describing themselves the way bigots do, participating in their culture because they might be secretly pure than you are with actually using your social presence in your own environment to discourage bigotry.
Like my friend, I may be an agnostic jew, but I’m telling you– you’re not being like Jesus, suffering the possibility of evil for your tolerance. you’re exposing others to suffering and evil for your tolerance of things that absolutely are a prelude to violence. It’s not a virtue of tolerance or forgiveness or presumption of innocence. You’re being the patsy of evil for the sake of others never doubting your virtue.
I don’t pretend that I don’t judge based on people’s actions– the very ability that we can judge our own actions and the actions of others is what protects us from unknowingly doing evil– and the very fact that you’re so resistant to the basic social contract (”friends don’t let friends be or resemble nazis”) leads me to believe that like… you think that people will ‘mistakenly’ clock you as a nazi because you describe yourself as a christian on your blog. But like, why would you believe that? Do you not oppose nazis enough? Do you do anything (like reblog from nazis, which is how I identified the original source of the post) that would cause anyone to investigate you for that reason?
And if it is your number one goal to never be mistaken for a nazi, why would you go the route of trying to access the leeway to resemble one without suspicion, rather than dedicating your life and actions to never resembling them? Why is the burden in this model laid at the feet of other people who are trying to keep themselves safe and understand the movements of their enemies? Enemies that should be your enemies– the reason why Nazis and other white supremacists sometimes fetishize Christianity is they lust for the violence perpetrated in its name or ‘glory’ and wish to more strongly associate your religion with its historical atrocities and disassociate it from ordinary people like you.
if you want to oppose nazis, move away from them, not closer to them. Let’s cut the shit waffling like “people believe in different meanings of words” or “some people would say X, other people say Y.” Some people are also wrong, or believe things that enable them to benefit from the domination of factions they nominally oppose, but won’t commit to opposing.
is this just a new, evolved form of “not all men”?
not all nationalists, apparently
“I know they described themselves as a nationalist but listen– you can’t judge them, because what if you get Little Timmy, the only child who loves reciting the pledge of allegiance in 8:00 homeroom in middle school”
This is a person who reblogged a post of mine via some Nazi blogs.
Notice they do not call themselves a Nazi. Instead, they use a collection of dog whistle interests that require specific contexts to be understood as basically white nationalism, colonialist white-heritage ‘antiquities’, specifically white nationalist Christianity, Nazi-related gender roles and ‘traditionalism’. Notice they work with children.
Learn to recognize Nazis. They do not look like goose-stepping jack booted thugs all of the time. Beware.
“traditionalism” is a big red flag with a swastika right in the center.
Be wary of anyone who self-describes that way.
I think you’re looking too deep into things
this was an actual real life nazi i found.
and not a superlative “if I call them a nazi, it means they’re bad, im signalling they’re bad” way, this was an honest to god literal nazi who followed other nazis who posted gore and swastikas and holocaust denialism and other shit. I’ve already done a breakdown on my notes on this post, and if you need like, evidence in excess of the absolute WORLD of ‘how to spot a fascist dog whistle’ media content that has come out since I made this original post before 2016, i made a break down ages ago with proof that like, i’m not exaggerating. the person this post was about was a real nazi, and has since deleted. https://betterbemeta.tumblr.com/post/150794073297/alucard-gintoki-featherinmycapandcheese
this is not not “oh i found this combination of stuff and if i reach and squint it might be a nazi.” it’s how real nazis describe themselves. with the evidence coming from a real, actual one. you don’t have to “look deep” at all or connect the dots, it’s usually right there on the surface and using handy dog whistles is one way they achieve that while not compromising relationships with “normies”.
saying “you’re looking too deep” to this post is like being shown a pig, being told by me it’s a pig, and then being like “oh you’re looking too deep. that could be any animal.”
I misunderstood, or you misspoke. I thought you meant that “because they associate themselves with these things they’re a Nazi” when it seems you meant “these are things Nazis commonly associate themselves with”. But still, not everyone interested in these things is a Nazi, albiet it warrants looking into their blog to be sure.
I get that communication is hard, but I don’t know how much clearer I could possibly make it that this is a post dedicated to breaking down the dog whistles that nazis use to weaken recognition of their own interests while still signalling to their in-group– especially when by 2019 standards, “nationalism” and ‘traditionalism’ are so, SO well-known to basically ALWAYS be dog whistles they can almost never be mistaken for ‘someone who just likes their country and traditions.’ Before the global platforming of open fascist politics, when this post was first circulated, they were more obscure.
Like, I get where you’re coming from but I still strongly suggest that “we don’t accidentally wanna accuse an innocent person” is the wrong mindset to have when you see someone with “nationalist, traditionalist” in their blog description because if they aren’t a reactionary nationalist fascist tradwife or something, they are a person putting themselves in with that crowd. Whether it’s from a place of innocence or not, they pay the social consequences for resembling a nazi. This post, and maybe most of your own life too, is no space to try and float that there are Very Fine People among those whose behavior very precisely resembles nazis.
This is not a situation like, when I was 14 years old and somehow hadn’t heard of kingdom hearts, I invented a fantasy OC that used a “key-blade” and inadvertently met a ton of kingdom hearts fans from a state of total innocence.
being treated like a nazi is not just a condemnation or punishment of real nazis, but a deterrent for people to resemble nazis out of ignorance.
besides, you have to “look into their blog to be sure” just to see their sidebar description or surface posts. I had to “look into the blog” just to notice this person had reblogged from overt nazis. Why behave like someone in the position to spot a nazis based on evidence (which this post is intended to spread awareness of, that evidence may be different from what people expected in 2016!) is somehow not being cautious?
I know you looked into their blog to be sure. I’m not accusing you of judging them solely on the fact that they’re into traditionalism and nationalism. And no, you shouldn’t punish people for “resembling Nazis out of ignorance”. If someone gets a bad haircut and looks like a skinhead you can’t assume they are one, same as when someone is a bit too patriotic and also interested in traditonalism.
Also “we don’t want to accidentally accuse an innocent person” is the absolute MOST important mindset to have in any situation!
look me in the eyes and tell me that you’ll ever see someone ‘seeming too patriotic’ in a way that causes themselves to explicitly describe themselves as a ‘nationalist traditionalist’ and not like, at least think “wow, that looks like a nazi”– you’re not shielding innocent people by giving them the benefit of the doubt, what you’re doing is giving many more actual nazis a benefit they don’t deserve. You’re not sparing someone innocent, you’re sparing the guilty under the mantle that there might be some unicorn among them who in complete accidental ignorance, might be doing or saying the exact same thing as the rest of the nazis– therefore contributing to their culture yet somehow not being culpable for the outcome.
This isn’t like some court of law where “innocent before proven guilty” is important, because interpersonal senses and interactions are not the actions of a state. The reason a state may be like that is because it has supreme power to leverage violence against people and this is a check upon its unmitigated power.
But you are not a state. Your social interactions and your social senses are not the actions of a state. Every day, whether you intend to or not, you are using your senses to identify properties of those around you and even place pressure on those in your environment to act or not act in a certain way. And chances are, you don’t give this sort of leeway to anyone else who seemingly perfectly resembles violence– you don’t see someone self-describing the same way homophobes do and think “oh, I better not judge them negatively, they might be from an isolated island where there’s no homophobia, or a completely innocent baby who still for some reason is acting this way.” You already judge people in this way based on cues they give for your own safety and you’re probably not too worried about splash damage because chances are when you were younger or more innocent being met with a negative reaction for harmful or bigoted ideas taught you to not be a jerk or a bigot if you valued the opinion of those around you.
I’m not asking you to join some kind of presumptuous hate mob unbased in evidence, or roleplay judge, jury, and executioner whenever you see someone say they think ancient rome was neat. I am asking you to consider extending the same social habits and chilling effect to fascists as we do to homophobes, racists, and other reactionaries.
It is one of the crux anxieties that fascists exploit, the insecurity that many people still harbor that if we do not tolerate fascism, anybody (read: white people, sometimes straight people, etc.) could be tarred a nazi and thus protecting fascism is to protect oneself from ‘unjust accusation.’ Exploiting this anxiety is part of how fascist subcultures radicalize people to their perspective. Meanwhile, most people who have not been exposed to this worry don’t typically fret over being mistaken for a nazi or other type of aggressive political bigot for their interests or base traits, no matter what they are. You may not be aware that you are repeating these fears and bringing their talking points into the conversation but you are , and I strongly encourage you to stop and develop another approach that does not afford fascism special social privileges that other societally-harmful or regressive forces do not enjoy in a typical worldview.
This is a person who reblogged a post of mine via some Nazi blogs.
Notice they do not call themselves a Nazi. Instead, they use a collection of dog whistle interests that require specific contexts to be understood as basically white nationalism, colonialist white-heritage ‘antiquities’, specifically white nationalist Christianity, Nazi-related gender roles and ‘traditionalism’. Notice they work with children.
Learn to recognize Nazis. They do not look like goose-stepping jack booted thugs all of the time. Beware.
“traditionalism” is a big red flag with a swastika right in the center.
Be wary of anyone who self-describes that way.
I think you’re looking too deep into things
this was an actual real life nazi i found.
and not a superlative “if I call them a nazi, it means they’re bad, im signalling they’re bad” way, this was an honest to god literal nazi who followed other nazis who posted gore and swastikas and holocaust denialism and other shit. I’ve already done a breakdown on my notes on this post, and if you need like, evidence in excess of the absolute WORLD of ‘how to spot a fascist dog whistle’ media content that has come out since I made this original post before 2016, i made a break down ages ago with proof that like, i’m not exaggerating. the person this post was about was a real nazi, and has since deleted. https://betterbemeta.tumblr.com/post/150794073297/alucard-gintoki-featherinmycapandcheese
this is not not “oh i found this combination of stuff and if i reach and squint it might be a nazi.” it’s how real nazis describe themselves. with the evidence coming from a real, actual one. you don’t have to “look deep” at all or connect the dots, it’s usually right there on the surface and using handy dog whistles is one way they achieve that while not compromising relationships with “normies”.
saying “you’re looking too deep” to this post is like being shown a pig, being told by me it’s a pig, and then being like “oh you’re looking too deep. that could be any animal.”
I misunderstood, or you misspoke. I thought you meant that “because they associate themselves with these things they’re a Nazi” when it seems you meant “these are things Nazis commonly associate themselves with”. But still, not everyone interested in these things is a Nazi, albiet it warrants looking into their blog to be sure.
I get that communication is hard, but I don’t know how much clearer I could possibly make it that this is a post dedicated to breaking down the dog whistles that nazis use to weaken recognition of their own interests while still signalling to their in-group– especially when by 2019 standards, “nationalism” and ‘traditionalism’ are so, SO well-known to basically ALWAYS be dog whistles they can almost never be mistaken for ‘someone who just likes their country and traditions.’ Before the global platforming of open fascist politics, when this post was first circulated, they were more obscure.
Like, I get where you’re coming from but I still strongly suggest that “we don’t accidentally wanna accuse an innocent person” is the wrong mindset to have when you see someone with “nationalist, traditionalist” in their blog description because if they aren’t a reactionary nationalist fascist tradwife or something, they are a person putting themselves in with that crowd. Whether it’s from a place of innocence or not, they pay the social consequences for resembling a nazi. This post, and maybe most of your own life too, is no space to try and float that there are Very Fine People among those whose behavior very precisely resembles nazis.
This is not a situation like, when I was 14 years old and somehow hadn’t heard of kingdom hearts, I invented a fantasy OC that used a “key-blade” and inadvertently met a ton of kingdom hearts fans from a state of total innocence.
being treated like a nazi is not just a condemnation or punishment of real nazis, but a deterrent for people to resemble nazis out of ignorance.
besides, you have to “look into their blog to be sure” just to see their sidebar description or surface posts. I had to “look into the blog” just to notice this person had reblogged from overt nazis. Why behave like someone in the position to spot a nazis based on evidence (which this post is intended to spread awareness of, that evidence may be different from what people expected in 2016!) is somehow not being cautious?
This is a person who reblogged a post of mine via some Nazi blogs.
Notice they do not call themselves a Nazi. Instead, they use a collection of dog whistle interests that require specific contexts to be understood as basically white nationalism, colonialist white-heritage ‘antiquities’, specifically white nationalist Christianity, Nazi-related gender roles and ‘traditionalism’. Notice they work with children.
Learn to recognize Nazis. They do not look like goose-stepping jack booted thugs all of the time. Beware.
“traditionalism” is a big red flag with a swastika right in the center.
Be wary of anyone who self-describes that way.
I think you’re looking too deep into things
this was an actual real life nazi i found.
and not a superlative “if I call them a nazi, it means they’re bad, im signalling they’re bad” way, this was an honest to god literal nazi who followed other nazis who posted gore and swastikas and holocaust denialism and other shit. I’ve already done a breakdown on my notes on this post, and if you need like, evidence in excess of the absolute WORLD of ‘how to spot a fascist dog whistle’ media content that has come out since I made this original post before 2016, i made a break down ages ago with proof that like, i’m not exaggerating. the person this post was about was a real nazi, and has since deleted. https://betterbemeta.tumblr.com/post/150794073297/alucard-gintoki-featherinmycapandcheese
this is not not “oh i found this combination of stuff and if i reach and squint it might be a nazi.” it’s how real nazis describe themselves. with the evidence coming from a real, actual one. you don’t have to “look deep” at all or connect the dots, it’s usually right there on the surface and using handy dog whistles is one way they achieve that while not compromising relationships with “normies”.
saying “you’re looking too deep” to this post is like being shown a pig, being told by me it’s a pig, and then being like “oh you’re looking too deep. that could be any animal.”
cryptofascist neonazi terf @8thhousemoon is back on tumblr and hanging around women who post morrowind, cottagecore, and astrology content again. block her or block me. she will lie about her politics if asked directly and might sanitize her page after seeing this post so contact me for receipts if you really need them.
people saying “just post receipts” honest to god like the first thing I did was search terf on her blog and badda bing badda boom!
also shes mutuals w all these assholes
^shes mutuals w this op too. she also lied about her politics to some of the biggest elder scrolls blogs to get close to them, like claiming she ‘jokes about being a terf because it’s so ludicrous’ and shit
ironic nazis are always just normal nazis trying to make their shit more palatable. block her or block me
